Thanks for the heads-up

So far I’m fortunate and haven’t been spam-added to any groups. I’ve received unsolicited invitations to blogs from time to time, but have never been added to one involuntarily.

It was mildly amusing to read that group’s spiel. Something to note besides the misspellings here and there, and words capitalized that shouldn’t be, are the BUZZ WORDS shouting out at us so we won’t MISS them.

Hi, thought I’d post an update

I last posted a year ago, when my daugther was being controlled and mentally and physically abused by her Amway husband. A few months ago he caused her serious physical injury and she finally left him for good. She prosecuted him, and he pled guilty to disorderly conduct, which was the best we could get at the time becasue of the unavailability of the prosecutor who’d been handling the case up to that point and the fact that he got a good lawyer to try and get him out of it. He came to our home and assaulted me, and that case is still pending. He actually has the audacity to be fighting my daughter for custody of the two children now. His mother, the Amway psycho from hell, still feeds the kids Nutrilite vitamins and food replacement pills and shakes that are not recommneded for children their ages (8 months old and 2 years old).
Our grandson has had considerable gastrointestinal problems. But the good news is that she is safe, she is home with us, and she is free from Quixtar. The first time we went to a store and bought some beauty products she was thrilled, as it had been years since she’d gotten to look at anything but Amway products, and she couldn’t believe how inexpensive and good they were- it had only been a few years, and she had forgotten that- isn’t that sad? She is now in school and doing wonderfully and enjoying her life, besides the legal battles with him. I have to say that the family’s upline, Dan Smith, was totally and utterly inappropriate in attending Kyle’s hearings and trying to vouch for him when he had knowledge of the physical abuse all along. I am disgusted with his so-called morals. My daughter was hospitalized because of the abuse, and thank God she got out before anything worse happened. Thanks for listening, and thanks for all the advice and support. I look back at the messages now and wonder what I would have done if I hadn’t had the support of the blog.

Thanks for sharing your story with us!

Don’t worry about the length of the email! You’re telling a story that is quite pertinent to the topic at hand. I hope you’ll stick around and help us with the people who are dealing with getting out of or with friends in MLMs. They do need a lot of help and hearing from people who have “been there, done that” is a big help!

As for the rules, the biggest issue we ever have with the rules is people that come in to recruit for MLMs. Please don’t feel like we’re going to jump down your throat over something when you’ve come in to honestly share with us. In other words, it’s more about the spirit than the letter. We’re here for people just like you, so welcome — and thanks for the compliment on my writing. It’s nice to hear that when so many people want to call me evil when I write what they don’t want to hear.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least

Especially with the younger generation, who has never had to do without, make do, or practiced delayed gratification, the lure of supposed riches from MLMs might become more appealing if financial times get tight. Too many people are becoming strapped for cash, tapped out with their credit lines, and MLMs are waiting in the wings to prey on the desperate.

I don’t watch a great deal of television, but I’ve seen a surge of debt-elimination, debt-reduction, debt-negotiation commercials recently.

A hungry man is an angry man

If the promise of better times looks “real”, then the hungry man might not take up arms against his/her government. One of the ways to make that promise look “real”, is to either actually create jobs,or create the illusion that there are jobs out there. MLMs are extremely good at creating the illusion of jobs out there.

IOW, MLMs make very good “safety valves”.

I think we are in for a wave of new MLMs, with very funny money from extremely unusual financial sources financing them.

At this time, IMHO, the govt is running a massive pyramid scheme

basically, our tax money/future earnings are being funneled without much debate or process into any institution that can scare our

a) The problem is that by not allowing the financial institutions — especially Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae — to fail, the US Congress has put a gun to its head, that forces it to support _every_ financial institution that _might_ fail;

b) If CitiGroup and/or CitiBank fail, then the economy of roughly fifty countries instantly fail, with them filing bankruptcy, just like Iceland did, and Swizerland and Ireland are about to do.

Roughly six first world countries can have an economic failure, before the entire world is plunged into war. Roughly twenty second world countries have to fail, for a world war to ensue. Roughly forty third world countries have to fail, for a world war to ensure. Given the combination of countries that will have an “instant” economic failure, if Citigroup or Citibank fail, the best _militarily_ defensive option, is to keep Citigroup and Citibank afloat.

It isn’t an issue of who can come up with the scariest, theoretical scenario. It is a matter of who can deal with the practical consequences of the privately owned financial institution that, for all practical purposes, has run the economy of a between quarter and an eighth of the countries on the planet.

I have been watching the news eager to hear more bad things about Citibank

I know it is not good to gloat over the misfortunes of others. However Primerica has finically hurt millions of people and citibank owns them. Primerica claims to be a fortune 500 company because of its assocation with Citibank. They went from a 200 billion dollar company to a 20 billion dollar company.

I am crossing my fingers that Primerica falls apart due to Citibanks evitable demise. It would be nice if Primerica is exposed for the fruad that it is before it gets dismantled.

Thanks very much for your post

My husband and I can certainly relate. He still doesn’t want to admit how badly we were duped by people we liked and trusted — we don’t talk about the “Amway Days” (1996-2004).
It drove a wedge between us too, because he stayed “plugged in” for far longer than I did.

I believe that’s why there is so much talk in the tapes about “ignore your negative spouse — he/she will come around when he/she sees you succeed!” Usually one of the spouses gets a clue before the other one does, and then the tool money is at risk. Therefore, spiel is recorded on tape to keep the remaining spouse hooked for as long as possible, draining bank accounts for as long as possible. It’s an insidious thing.

Billy Florence was our upline Diamond, and I noted with interest that he was one of the ones who got his business taken away by Amway Corporate awhile back. Dunno what he’s doing nowadays, nor what our immediate upline Direct did when that house of cards fell.

In the USA, Network 21 is Accredited by Amway

That means “truth in advertising” – for example: explaining that the tools-and-functions is strictly optional. I’m not sure how that influences their overseas business practices, however…. I would guess if one searched the Amway website for “Accreditation” – it might explain?

In the meantime, bookkeeping is universal. Point out to your friend that it’s impossible for a new recruit to make a profit from the sales of products if they are spending their money on tools and functions. Selling 100 PV of product yields about a $6 bonus check – which doesn’t even cover the cost of one N-21 tape here in the USA. And 100 PV is a LOT of product.

And yes, any good student of N-21 (or any other motivational blog) is going to want to recruit LOTS of people. They can’t help themselves…LOL! But it’s OK for you to say “no, thanks.” You don’t have to even give a valid reason – if it’s not interesting to you, then the answer is no. Period. With a smile.

There might be a chance your friend is hooked into a really rabid blog – and will be told NOT to associate with anyone “negative”. In these connotations, negative means anyone who isn’t part of the blog.
Your friend might be distant for a while – and all you can do is wait for reason to win over enthusiasm. Some folks really get caught up in the artificial love/forced excitement delivered by these blogs – I call them “Motivational Junkies”. Some have to hit absolute rock bottom before they walk away.

In the “files” section there are past histories of what other folks have done to lure loved ones away from the clutches of these blogs – don’t be afraid to read some of their experiences….just in case…

How to handle an Amway friend

One of my best friends has been trying to get me to join Network 21 in Turkey. He is a good guy, has my best interests at heart, but is a true believer and thus believes that I should join them. I need a way to get out of this without 1) ruining an important friendship and (ideally) 2) getting him to realize that you can sell products without going to seminars, meetings, buying books, etc

I have had experience with three MLM’s over the years

Amway, Cell-Tech and ACN. You are correct when you say they promote an approach that says just keep thinking and talking positive and you will be successful. All three of the companies I have been involved with promote this idea and they all mock the “losers ” that wouldn’t stick with the business.
The reason some people make it and some don’t is because, the one’s who make it big are extremely gifted in selling people on a dream. I heard one of the top people once boast that they knew this current company was going to work for them because years earlier they were selling over-priced, barely adequate water filters and made a killing at it. They craft their stories to sound like just everyday folks but they are supremely gifted sales people and their entire focus is on recruitment not selling product. My question for you is, why after 15 years on and off, with no profit to show for it, would you be willing to try once again? You’re better off getting a second, third or fifth job. The hours spent at that will be far more profitable to you.

Thanks for offering to help

I hope you are still looking for my reply. First off the book is called Pushing Up People. As far as I can tell its the only book he reads. I have treid to get him to read Beyond the Smoke and Mirrors, and other books that would expose him to the MLM scheme and whats behind it. However he refuses to read anything “negative”.

The latest developments are as follows- first I got a job as a water inspector with the county. It has great benefits and the people are amazing. When we have meetings everyone-says something postive and something negative about thier job. The boss listens to us and tells us what he can and cannot change. Anyway its a great working environment and not an MLM.

My boyfriend on the other hand is still struggling at his job. He keeps saying that he wants to make $100,000 again (like he did with Primerica his first 2 years) and it does feel right to be making $40,000. He is scanning the internet for high paying jobs, but he is not finding anything that “fits his needs”. Its hard to find a job when you have spent 7 years swindling people. At least with his current job he has something positive on his resume.

He suggested that we go to couple counseling so I went just to “see” where he was coming from. He told the shrink that he would never give up Primerica. It came out that he had actually done some research. After I told him my concerns a few months ago he contacted a few people in the finacial industry and asked them if what I was saying was true. They all told him I was the one that was looking too deeply at the company and that Primerica is the only company that “does the right thing”. I wonder how many of the people he contacted are part of MLMs? He says telling him to leave Primerica is like me giving up working in the environment (I have an MS in Biology). I told him it is ok to work in finace-just not Primerica. He went off on how Primerica was the onlly organization that was moral and the only one he could and would work for.

Anyway I do not see much of a future here. But out of curiousity what would you suggest?

Okay, I stand corrected

Your points are more than valid and I did speak a little hastily. Let me restate and explain what I meant. My husband and I do live simply…by following the principles you state..investing 10-15% of our income for over 10 years, living below our earnings, paying off our mortgage and giving up things like cable and restaurants. Because we did this I was able to get out of the workforce 4 years ago and now he will be able to to take a chance at doing something that we WANT to do.

Rereading what I wrote about business ownship being the only vehicle to financial freedom sounds like MLM vomit when in fact I got that principle from E-myth Mastery…and that book made sense to me…there are numerous tax advantages to owning my own business, which does help me to get ahead.

My husband and I both made really good money and were very good at what we did…the problem is that there is no job security in corp america any more. Seniority just increases the likelyhood of getting laid off. My husband is on call 24X7 for an extremely demanding company who recently announced no raises or bonuses..and then followed up the announcement with a 200 person layoff. The cost savings for this funded the upper management bonuses. We have decided to get out of the hampster wheel. We would rather cut lawns, service computers or clean houses for a living if necessary knowing that WE control our destiny.

According to what we’ve researched, a lot of businesses fail due to poor planning…techies with a great idea don’t learn to operate like an entrepreneur..E-myth mastery subscribes to the idea that this skill can be learned. We’ve done our homework and put together a plan both short and long term that seems viable. We’ve made sure that the business is viable, it seems almost recession proof. If it doesn’t pan out we are still young enough to get back in the workforce if we have to.

That was what I had intended to convey. Thanks for setting the record straight. I think that you should start your film production company. What do we work for if not to do the things that we love? Good luck!

P.S. Stating the flip side of the coin or the bigger picture is not arguementative. Perhaps I needed a little levity as my husband hands in his resignation in 48 hours! No more JOB that’s a pretty big deal.

There’s also investing

My Father worked as an engineer from when he got out of the Navy until he retired. He used money from his Navy pay and from his regular pay to buy stocks. Let’s just say that since his estate has been disbursed, I’ve given serious thought to closing my business and going straight to starting my film production company.

All that from money he earned than invested.

I dont want to come across as argumentative

but your last sentence is wrong. Many people have become financially independent by working regular jobs and earning regular paychecks. The trick is to spend less than you make, save and invest wisely and for the long term. Starting your own business is a very speculative way to try and achieve financial independence – 80% of those that do this – do not succeed and, in fact, wind up the business.

I joined Arbonne with the hope of

retiring my husband from his stressful 20+ year job in computers in corp america. Since the Arbonne thing didn’t pan out, we are starting our own company, and using his experience in computers to do this. Suggest this to your boyfriend, maybe he can sell the program that he wrote! business ownership is the only true avenue to financial freedom.

Second, take a look at some of the books about Amway, ie ‘Merchants of Deception’ which you can download for free. They are hauntingly familiar! Maybe this will help your boyfriend see the truth. You should read them yourself to see where his mind is at.

Third, you are going to have to let his involvement run it’s course. We don’t want to believe that we’ve been duped! We’ve been brainwashed to believe that our failure is our fault. I’ve come to believe that MLMs are like gambling we keep thinking this time we’ll hit the jackpot, we’ll find our ace and make our next level. Only statistically it’s IMPOSSIBLE much worse than playing the lottery…

As far as still collecting money, maybe he deserves that! My thought is that if he isn’t putting in more than he’s getting, why NOT? On the other hand, I had to get out completely so that I would not be tempted to place the necessary $100 order just to get a small commission check…I had to realize my limititations…

Whatever you do, have some patience with him. It sounds like he is coming out of the fog. Best wishes to you and to him.

Thanks for the suggestion

My Bf just got his 90 day reveiw. They think he is great. They are not aware of the computer program he set up. My bf is frustrated at the low pay of this job and he is applying to computer jobs. When he was programming at home he was happy. So I hope it works out for him. No matter what he does he will be happiest in front of a computer.

Okay, remember it clearly now

I didn’t remember some details, like whether he started before or after you met.

He’s not going to find a job that pays him residual income. No company wants to do that, since it’s income they don’t keep. I’m sure there are some jobs out there that pay residuals, but the best way I can think of to create residual income is to either write a book or make a movie that keeps paying some kind of royalties or to create your own business that sets up a system where people pay by subscription.

I’ve heard of situations where a sales person continues to make an income on sales of things like subscriptions (the salesperson makes some each time it’s renewed), but anything like this will eventually slack off or peter out, since over time fewer people will keep renewing.

Here’s a big point for him to consider: Computer and data work has a much better potential to provide residual income than many other fields. Once you write a program, the effort is done and you can resell it many times over at a fraction of a cost (to you) of the original. Just print a new manual and burn new disks and you’ve got another copy at a cost of $10 to $20.

Is it possible he could work out a deal to sell the software he’s written for his work to his own company? That might help move him over to a computer job, if he wants, since they’d want new versions with improvements and bug fixes.

He might also be able to use some type of auto-updating feature and, instead of selling the program once for each company or set of licenses, could sell it as a subscription program. Then a company would pay him a set amount per month for a certain number of licenses and that would include updates and bug fixes. One advantage is that once he fixes a bug for one company, he can push it to other companies as an update as well.

That’s a few ideas you might want to forward to him. For what it’s worth, my business is based on a model like this. I sell subscriptions to a data service. My clients pay me monthly. I have a simple program that runs on their computers and the program that runs on my computer does all the hard work (that includes the processes I don’t want others to be able to copy). As of now it’s automated so the data is delivered to them regularly, but I’m still working on the control programs. When those are done, the data processing is automated and managing the business will take very little time. He might be able to set up something similar with the program he uses for his job.

I will give you a brief reminder of my situation

When I met my boyfriend I had no idea that he was working for a MLM. After a few months of dating I went to a couple of meetings and I was appalled.
My boyfriend had been working in the computer industry until his company got bought out by another. He decided he did not like the corporate world and joined Primerica through an acquaintance. At first he made quite a bit of money, and then it all fell apart. I met him when he was going bankrupt. It took having all of his savings, and second mortgage money running out to finally get him to apply to a real job. He got lucky and on the third interview he got a good job.

He recruits medical professionals for hospitals across the country. The computer program for his job was not efficient. So he wrote a program that allows him to work much faster then everyone else. He is winning all sorts of awards at work because he is able to place so many people. However he is still collecting money from Primerica. He gives Primerica $40.00 a month for the privilege of using their webpage! He wants a job that he can collect residual income like Primerica. So he is not completely satisfied with his current work. Sometimes I get nervous that he will return to Primerica. He talks about it with such affection. His things if only X had happened then it would have worked.

Although I must say he is defiantly starting to change for the better. He is no longer around other Primerica people so his thinking is getting more rational. He wants to take a computer class so he can learn the latest language and be competitive for jobs in his field. I have watched him meet people just to talk rather then recruit them. He is trying to act like a professional by dressing and talking like someone with a master’s degree rather then the low lives that are drawn to Primerica. I have to remind him not to swear or to make jokes about burping. But it is much, much, better then it was a few months ago.

I would like to ask for a little bit of advice

My boyfriend used to be an RVP at Primerica. Now he works a standard 9-5 job in which he is winning all sorts of awards. I still have a few concerns.

First, he thinks the managers at his present job don’t know what they are doing. So he is planning on giving them all a copy of a primerica book on how to manage a business. Fortunately it is out of print and he is having trouble finding it. This makes me think he has not quite gotten over Primerica.

Secondly, he is still a district something-or-other which is a few steps lower. Which means he is not “allowed” to advance to an RVP position again. It also frees him of managing an office and Saturday meetings. Nor does he go to any other meetings. However he is collecting money from previous clients every month. I do not feel right about him collecting money from this organization. He is in desperate need of cash and this brings in income. I am not sure how to approach this one. He is making money without doing anything but I don’t like the source.

Thirdly, he still has his IRA with Primerica. I have mine in Vanguard. Mine is doing extremely well and I keep hinting he should move his money. However is convinced that Primerica is as good as Vanguard and moving the money would not gain him anything.

How do I get him to finally break the chain with Primerica? Now that he is not as engaged with Primerica he is looking at people differently. They are no longer potential clients or recruits they are potential friends.

Also he is seeing the benefits of a real job. Now when he is sick he goes to the doctor with a $10.00 co-pay. He has time to do things that he wants when he is off work. Lastly he is not as stressed about money, now that he knows he has a steady paycheck.
Although some months are better then others.

Has anyone ever been in this situation? How do you get someone to take that leap of faith and let go of the past?

Hal is seriously doing his best to get out of programming, though

He’s on extended vacation and refuses to go back to programming until he finishes at least one, maybe two scripts.

I’m willing to bet, though, that there are a lot of programs out there that can do what theirs does and maybe even some FOSS (Free/Open Source Software) that one can get to do some of it without having to pay for it.

And the OOo API is a b!+(# to learn! The trick is to write an interface that makes the stuff you want easy so you use your own interface and do all the dirty work ONCE, in that interface, so you never have to see it again. (Technically, write a wrapper and put the ugly code in the wrapper.)

I’ve been a lurker on this blog for about six months and this is my first time writing

I love this board! It got me out of my first and only MLM within a week of finding it(the board, not the MLM!).

I had no experience with MLMs until April 22, 2015, when I got suckered into XanGo. One of the requirements to be allowed into this spectacular opportunity was to go to one of the major events within your first few months of signing up; another was to be on a two-case per month autoship ($335 a month per person – my boyfriend signed up too, but only for me. He thought it was ridiculous but indulged me sweetly anyway.) So we were getting 16 bottles of XanGo every month – there’s over $600 a month spent right there.

I won’t even mention all the CDs, DVDs, brochures I bought for the required weekly “trainings”. Of course since I’d signed up with my credit card everything was just automatically debited, so if one didn’t keep track, I can see how so many things get hidden in the bill, for example, our shipping and handling fees. We thought it would be $250 a month each, but add taxes, shipping and handling, and it was $335 each per month.

Surprise! When I signed up, XanGo only had the “specially patented for twenty years” mangosteen juice, but soon they tried to get me to pre-sign up for their mens’ and womens’vitamin line (they looked pretty much like Centrum to me, ingredient-wise)and their skin care line (only available to ME, if I sign up for autoship NOW -because I’m one of the chosen!) At least I didn’t do that. In Orlando they had professional models putting little drops of this cream called Glimpse on your fingertips. It was all very controlled and secretive. You had to wear a badge to go anywhere. The models were not allowed to say anything but their scripts. And everywhere you turned there were well-dressed men in black business suits and micro-walkie-talkies, all very important and hush-hush.

The Orlando “regional” was the only MLM major event I’ve ever been to. I still wanted to give it my best shot, but we live in the wine country in California, so Orlando, Florida is as far away from here as you can get, without leaving the States. I did ask that since they have these events all the time, why I couldn’t wait for the next one coming up in Utah, since that’s a lot closer to California.

They looked at me like my hair had just caught fire. “No”, they explained patiently to the dummy, you have to go to the NEXT ONE, and it doesn’t matter where it is. Are you in, or are you out? We are experts at this, all millionaires, so don’t try to reinvent the wheel.
Trust us, this is how everyone does it. You ALWAYS go to the next upcoming event, always, and you will be going to Utah in the fall, too. It’s not an either/or. You go to every single one! So are you coming with the winners, or going to sit at home with the losers, the wage-slaves and the dream-stealers? The losers who are on the infamous Journey of Broke? You’ve been especially chosen because you show all these rare, unique qualities. I was special!

It was a long, cramped flight; I had to spend five days away from home, and I had to share a room with three other people. I’d booked a room for myself, but then people from XanGo groups contacted me and said they’d all like to share this nice room (it was on the convention site, so easier logistically)and couldn’t afford it on their own. I felt it would be selfish of me to keep my room for myself, so I said yes (to which my husband reacted with both amazement and great glee, because he knows what a private person – okay, prima donna – I am). So now I’m sharing a room with two queen beds and one bathroom, with two complete strangers, and one guy I’d said hi to once at a local XanGo meeting.

Orlando was from May 29 – June 1, 2015. The two guys traded off sleeping on the floor, but I had to share a bed with this girl I’d never met and didn’t connect with. Then of course in the morning everyone has to be at the same XanGo rally at the same time, so four people, all new acquaintances at best, sharing one bathroom. Even in COLLEGE I had my own bathroom!

I was shocked at the whole scene. Everyone was dressed up like they were going to the opera. There was constant cheering and applause – actually I felt like I was in one of those Pentecostal rallies, like the Elmer Gantry film or what I imagine a Jimmy Swaggart show must have been like. They introduced someone named Estella Salinas, who lives in Mexico and is one of XanGo’s elite. She got the loudest cheers and gave the longest talk. She went on and on about how she’s signed up practically everyone in Mexico.

Well, we’ve had the same wonderful Mexican gardeners for years. They send what little extra they make back to their families in Mexico. If you give them a ten dollar tip they practically cry with gratitude.
They are poor! Their families are poor! So how can these people living in Mexico afford to pay XanGo $300 or more every month? I realized these bloodsuckers are selling a literally impossible dream, and preying on the weak and hopeless, giving them false hope and taking every peso they had. They won’t even have their tin shack left once Estella is through with them.

All around me people were screaming and cheering and even crying. She had a huge neon yellow powerpoint page behind her that said one word in ten foot high letters. It said NEXT! She was so proud of herself as she said that if they can’t understand what a fabulous opportunity this was for these poor starving people, they are too stupid to deserve to be rich, therefore – NEXT! It made me sick. I got up and walked out. This was around midnight. They left most of the daytime hours open for “shopping”, where I watched thousands of people stand in long lines to pay $80 for cheap sweatshirts and backpacks that said XANGO all over them.

I could go on but I’ve never posted on this board before and don’t want to be rude. Is this too long? I hope I can join in the conversation here. I love to read it – oh, that reminds me – when I got home from Orlando my husband said “How was it?” And I said, “Whoa, this isn’t what I thought it was at all.”

One of my nicknames is “the internet queen” because I spend so much time writing and researching on the internet. So I googled “Xango scam” and “MLM scam”. First I found, and then I found mlmsurvivors, and that’s the place for me! I spent a couple of days glued to my screen reading the mlmsurvivor posts, and then I called my upline guy and said I have decided I don’t want to be involved in this business after all. Thank God! And thanks to everyone who took the time to post on here and help educate people who are so disgustingly, deliberately misled by these liars. Cindy Samuelson, anyone? Maybe she’s only XanGo. But I saw her in person at a local event, and that was actually unnerving, like a Twilight Zone episode.

I love the articulate writing, that people on this board will so honestly talk about the real pain they went through, both emotionally and financially. Oh, and I admit I always look for Hal’s great posts.
I am a writer and really want to write a book about this, possibly in the style of Stud Terkel’s old book “Working”. This whole MLM scam fascinates and horrifies me and it really is my favorite subject to talk about. I saw one post where Mike Dillinger said he’s also interested in possibly writing a book or expose, so I contacted him and am hoping that maybe more people would like to get together and get this information out in the real world. I’d like there to be no MLM survivors because there would be no more MLMs! Then we could still enjoy the board and be triply satisfied because we actually put a stop to it, or at least got enough information and truth out there that it will eventually shrivel up and die. I feel this board helping everyone feel okay about themselves again after being so duped, and that’s great. I also have a desire to tell people who aren’t YET mlm survivors. Maybe a great book would have an impact on people before they get hurt, and prevent some of this from ever happening in the first place. Or is that just wishful thinking?

Thanks for reading and I hope I didn’t break any rules. PW, I did read them first, so if I did, it was an accident! I just really feel inspired to put the truth out there – what MLMs really are. I saw just a few days ago that XanGo had proudly announced they’d signed up their one millionth “business builder” (gag). So yeah, I guess there is a sucker born every minute, but I want to do my part to show the MLM’s dirty underside. How can this continue? Why are they on Oprah?

I went on Amazon Books and searched “MLM”. There are hundreds and hundreds of books on how to make money with instant approval payday loans in the fabulous world of MLM.
Maybe thousands. The Yarnells (XanGo made me buy that one, so I already had it), Randy Gage, Rich De Vos, John Kalench … all the names I’m sure everyone on these boards is familiar with.

Then I searched “MLM scam” books, and guess who the top author was? Rod Cook! Wow, does he ever have some interesting web pages. This book’s title: MLM Compensation Plans” – and its description says: “It contains secrets to understanding MLM pay plans, tricks to maximize your income, avoiding MLM pay plan traps, and how to dodge illegal pyramid schemes. It includes all MLM compensation pay plans, Network Marketing compensation pay plans, Party Plans, Internet Affiliate and Multi-Affiliate pay plans, Mortgage MLM plans and Real Estate MLM base plans. A chapter includes MLM or Network Marketing compensation pay plans to avoid that fail or pay poorly.” And he’s the guy behind the so-called MLM Watchdog site! Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice…

Oh, I’m just so interested in all this. Please forgive me if there was a word limit. Until I spent my four short months in XanGo, I knew nothing about MLM. But because I interview people and write about them for a living, I’m endlessly fascinated to hear everyone’s stories, and thank you all so much for including me in your group. I’m looking forward to any responses or comments. I hope I haven’t overstepped any boundaries.

Hal, or any other good programmer

could probably write software that does the same thing over a weekend. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if something akin to that program was currently on Sourceforge. The hardest part about making it an OOo extension, is learning the OOo API.

Did anybody ever point out to UFF reps, that in the current economic climate, getting an equity line of credit won’t be possible for the people that it targets?

I was sitting in my favorite coffee shop today and

witnessed some guy pitching United First Financial. To me, this one is a lot worse than than the others because it’s $3500 to get their stupid software. The pitcher was encouraging the guy to take a second mortgage out to make the system work.

The poor working schmuck (he works for a landscaping business) kept signing contentedly about how he was going to be able to pay his house off so much faster and how that will help him. The pitcher also was “helping” him make a list of all the people he can recruit into his “branch”

He also pulled out some financial magazine that had a puff piece about their technique.

If they hadn’t left together, I was going to tell the guy to google United First Financial and Dave Ramsay. (who has a very succinct explanation why it’s a farce).

Again, the most disgusting part MLM recruiting is the mind-fu**ing that they do to people. They find out what people’s dreams are, then use them to manipulate. It really irritates me. It’s like a sexual predator talking a teenager into going up their room or something. Makes my skin crawl.

Sorry to hear about your MLM experience

I would cancel the credit card and replace it with a new one if they have this information. If its through your bank account, I will contact my bank and explain the problem to them and let them instruct you on what you need to do to resolve this problem. If all else fails, close out that account all together and open up another. Its better to be safe than sorry. There’s always a way to undo a situation. Also I would write to the company explaining my departure from being involved with the company any further just so you can have something in writing no longer giving them permission to go into your account. Its called stealing if they no longer have permission. If you have to, file a police report if they continue, as well as a report with BBB. This should help protect in the event that you need to file a suit in court.

Thank you for a great laugh!

I’m a former teacher with a wide range of experience, mostly because I worked special ed, and also because I did work for a while in private school settings as well.

There is just no way you’re going to convince me of this, especially considering how much AW twists the truth to keep their people in the organization.

If you’re saying that this refers to AW kids who are home schooled, then that is totally beyond belief. I’ve worked with many parents in home schooling. I would never want kids home schooled. They *always* have significant gaps in their education that their parents don’t see and I have yet to meet a kid with extensive home schooling experience who did not have significant social problems.

So if you’re here to learn, why are you telling us all this stuff?

Oh, and thanks, again, for a good laugh — I mean a literal “laugh out loud” laugh!

Wow. What a statement! Really?

Having read your post a couple of times, all I have to say is that I know 5th graders that can write better.
Or perhaps, being able to write a couple of sentences doesn’t count as “more knowledgeable” in Amway?

A little friendly advice. If you don’t want to get chewed up and spat out in this forum, try not to start by putting people down(like the statement about “Amway kids”) and making wild, unsubstantiated statements like the ones your post is full of.

Hello everyone

I am not here to promote my current MLM projects. I am hear to learn and thats about it.

I was in Amway at 18, and as a friend and I looked back on the influence of that culture in our lives recently, we both were thankful for it. Why? The Amway kids are more knowledgeable and industrious on average than street taught or standard educated kids.

Doesn’t really even matter if the parents ended up being successful to any degree, we were positively impacted by the realization there was more to life than a job, and that someone was supporting the idea of dreaming up desirable futures.

I have been in Herbalife, Quixtar, Excel. and i made little more than someone else a warm chair. I have been scared to succeed and I didn’t really know how I was doing that to myself. It pissed me off. I really don’t like it when I sabotage myself and get to live with the results.

Most recently I found I just had a really hard time on the phones with people, until it changed almost overnight. I can’t tell you how happy I was about that.

Well, I haven’t met anybody yet, lookin forward to it.

Because we all know, “if you can dream it, you can do it”

So… my dream is to hit the Mega Millions for like $300 million dollars. THen I can quit my job at the Wealth Management Firm where I work and have THEM work for ME. Then I can pay off all my debts..
all my close relatives debts, then I can have a modest house BUILT for us back in our hometown so we can be near our friends and family. Of course, I’ll donate a few million to a few local charities, and maybe start up a new business in my local area that can provide good paying jobs and boost up the economy.

See, it’s a good dream with a good plan, not too totally selfish. So since I can dream it, I can do it, right? Heck the odds are better than trying to make big bucks through an MLM…

… too bad I hardly ever PLAY the lottery…

Hope that helpsI’m not a Mom

but I do work from home with SL $ NT (telecommunication company…I certified with the “Mickey” company).
and I also do surveys. The surveys don’t pay a lot some pay $2 while others pay a little more. To base an income on online surveys wouldn’t be a wise decision. The little money I make go to small bills (my light bill is $30. If I make $10 in surveys that’s not even half the bill but hey I’m not complaining).
You might want to try various forum like or Both which has great information for “at home” workers.

Regarding all the work at home

one site I found which seems to be fairly reliable is . They have listings for the online surveys, as well as focus groups and mystery shopping sites.

I enjoy focus groups, and living in Chicago there are a number of companies. Where else can you be paid 50-100 for an hour of your time?

I’ve made a bit of cash from the online surveys, but most sites now seem to enter you into a drawing now, or they pay you in redeemable points.

I did a 6 month project where I would receive mail, log the date I received them, and send them back. I think I made about $ 200 in credits for that one.

Also, mystery shopping can be lucrative, but is extremely labor intensive. The key seems to be being very organized, and accomplishing multiple shops in a day. Also, with most of the mystery shops it takes about 45 days to get paid. There was an article about a woman who made 50k a year as a mystery shopper, but that was probably before her reimbursements for purchases. I’ve shopped a number of 5 star restaurants here, and I know of people who have mystery shopped cruise lines, but you need a lot of experience beofre you can be considered for that.

That’s my .02, but I like the volition site as being fairly well organized, and they seem to keep track of which are legit and which are scams.

I get those offers all the time and since I have been trying to find work to

do from you so I can stay with my disabled wife, I tried about 5 different “online surveys”. They all had similar questions, but all first required that you give them everything short of blood type. I would give them the info and proceeded to go through 20 minutes or more of answering questions about products and other interest of mine. About this time I would get a window popping up on my screen telling me I did not qualify because I did not fit the demographics they were looking for and I should try again later. There would then be a thank you and it was over…but really it wasn’t! I had given them just what they wanted and they did not pay a dime. These people putting out the “make money for taking a survey” email never really wanted me to qualify for anything. They already got what they needed for free. They got all my personal info so they could load it on a CD or sell it to a marketing firm to turn around and sell it to someone else and make a bundle of money. Every one of those “make money for taking a survey” I have dealt with was a scam.
Some of the surveys tell you that youi must disable your firewall or other protections before teking the survey so they can get other info off your computer without your knowledge. I did not even talk to them. Others track you by your email address or other personal info, but many will promose you that no one will contact youi unless you opt in by checking some box on the survey screen. This is also often a lie. As a test I used a temporary email address and gave a bunch of bogus personal information and indicated I had no interest in hearing from them or ANY of their associated. I gave a very unique mispelling of my name and within the week I was getting junk emails from at least 12 different companies all addressing me by my mispelled name. I had never even finished the survey each time because I was told they were not interested in me.
In another effort to test the truth of the survey I exited the survey, cleared all my cookies and temp files from my computer, rebooted and took it again and again, each time using a different email address and deliberately answered the questions in a different way. Not one time did I ever get to the part where I got paid for the survey, even after answering some questions for over an hour.
If you found some places that are legit, great! I sure haven’t.